Macworld Forums

After having read reactions to Apple's Jaguar and iTools price scheme on various forums, I must say that things are not looking good for Apple. Not at all.
No pc user in the world is going to switch to apple when even loyal apple fans are now starting to think about switching to windows. Remember, a pc user is a person who is always looking for a cheap solution. Asking that person to buy an apple computer (which already costs a hell of a lot more than a pc) and fork out an additional $99 for a mac email address and some itools services he'll probably never use anyway, is not going to go down well.
Mac os X (and esp. Jaguar) is a far superior OS than Windows XP. All of my mates have pc's and they've got nothing but trouble with it (whether it's Win 98, Millenium or XP). But they won't switch to apple, they never will.
The way they see it, a mac gets you less for more money. Now, in light of apple's plans, a mac gets you less for even more money.
What it boils down to is this : people who have been pc users for years won't ever switch. Period ! I know because I've tried my best at convincing A LOT OF THEM. I couldn't convince a single one.
Novice computer users or first time buyers who have been in doubt about whether to go mac or pc, will certainly go pc now, since even the loyal mac user base doesn't seem all that loyal anymore. All those loyal apple fans are finding it hard to stick with apple (myself included) since not all of those people are bleedin' rich and can afford a mac, a digital camera , a camcorder, an ipod, and all the stuff you need for 'digital hub'. Apple is going to lose market share for sure, which they cannot afford.
You'll certainly have read or heard all of this stuff before. In fact, you find posts like this one on forums all over the world. So maybe, just maybe, there could be some truth in there somewhere.
I won't abandon apple just yet, but I maybe forced to if they continue like this, since I will no longer be able to afford a mac. I want to be able to buy additional software, a game from time to time, a DVD , a book. I had been saving for a digital camera, but i'm going to put that off for a while longer if I want to get Jaguar and keep my .mac account. Things like iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes are great but when you haven't got the accessories to go with them then they're of no use to you, are they ?
I bet they will charge us for iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes in the near future.
When that happens, I'm outta here, along with a lot of other people.

Rincewind,

I think it boils down to this. You don't need .mac or 10.2 to enjoy using your mac you can find work arounds out there.
When apple realise people are not willing to pay their prices (especially for .mac) then they're going to have to backtrack.

I was all ready to sign up to itools but luckily i stepped back and worked out it was going to be about the same price for me to go broadband and use the email address and webspace they supply.

I really thought my mac address would be for life but if that's costing me $100 a year then i'll made do with an address that i'll have to change once in a while.

Charging for itools is the dumbest decision they've made for a long time. consider the people who don't have a credit card, the under 18s especially - they won't be able to access this service anymore. So no more breeding ground for young mac advocates out there. the more i think about it the more it irritates me. GGRRRRRR

By the way; you may want to think about changing your signature

That was a bit of a rambling rant wasn't it!??!

Rincewind,

The cost isn't an issue for anyone switching now, because they're going to get 10.2 for free anyway, and they can decide whether they want .Mac or not. They may decide they don't mind paying the £70 odd for the service, and if not, they'll just stick with the service they used on their PC.

Apple made two major mistakes with their announcements at MWNY. They should have left a free basic email service, and they should have called Jaguar a higher number. They're following the NeXT naming scheme, so 10.2 is actually a milestone upgrade. Its like moving from 8 to 8.5 or 8.5 to 9, BOTH of which were fully paid upgrades. The problem is all the classic Mac users think this is just a .1 update. This is far more of an update than 8.5 to 9 for instance. Its got the BSD 4.4 core instead of the 4.2, the gcc3.1 compiler, the new Quartz compositor, GUI firewall, connection sharing and lots and lots more. Jobs' demo at MWNY was terrible for showing how good it is because they concentrated on the very basic consumer aspects (Apple have moved towards using Macworlds as a consumer event).

If it makes you happier as well, I've convinced at least three PC users to switch to a Mac, and they're all very happy with them. They don't care about Jaguar at all, they're not really bothered about updates. It took me two weeks to get my old housemate to update to 10.1.5 to get the new text rendering in IE. Its worth bearing in mind that most Mac users only upgrade their OS when they buy a new Mac.

JP.

Rincewind,

same for me. i am a student, i'm 21 and getting the money for my first mac (powerbook g4-550, i need it for work & university) wasn't a piece of cake. in april i had the money together and bought my pb - now 3 months later i'm not only supposed to pay for my free @mac.com address but upgrade my OS for another ~200 € ... :-( i like my mac and it's been serving me better in three months than my pc has in years...but that's not the way you treat new customers...

elmacino,

You've got to remember you don't HAVE to pay for .mac, there are plenty of free email services out there, and they'll all work with Mail. Similarly you don't need 10.2, I had a PB 400 and that worked absolutely fine with 10.1.4, and 10.1.5 runs really nicely on even a rev. a imac.

JP.

J.P.,

i know well i have my own domain so i do not heavily rely on my mac.com email. anyway i thought this was a nice apple-add on giving me improved customer value. seems not. about jaguar: i do know that i don't _have_ to buy jaguar, but apple seemingly wants people to switch to os x which frankly, isn't as speey as i expected it to be - i have seen a jaguar beta on a friends pb-550 and it finally delivered what i thought to be "normal" on the hardware i'm running...i think jaguar is all about speed, the switch to bsd 4.4 and some in depth-work. sorry i won't use ichat or address book - give me a speedy macosx and i am stuffed

Rincewind,

I don't think Apple's policy has changed too much, they've always manipulated our buying habits to make money from us, as have most software / hardware companies.

It's not the fact that they want to charge for the stuff they make, that's fine, they're running a business, it's when Apple start making enemys with manipulative policies, that's what I hate. I have an interest in Apple too. I try to base my career on it !

Recent PC switchers, will have experianced their first bad taste of Apple, and I feel guilty talking PC users into upgrading telling them how good Apple are, when Apple pull stunts like this !

Also Apple seem to be very focused on the share holders at the moment, I personally think that's wrong, Although Apple should reassure share holders they can 'innovate' out of a recession etc. but Apple's No1 commitment should be with their customer, not the share holder. Apple are not the only company to put their shareholders first, I personally don't think it works !

Apple is about Computers and software, not shares ! I admit, we can't ignore the funds shares bring to Apple, but I strongly believe, share holders should put their faith in Apple, and let them concentrate on the business, which is about customers ! If they get that right, the financial reward will follow. At the moment, they seem to want to show share holders, they are quite prepared to screw their customers to keep their shares high. nice for the short term, but not for the long term.

Perhaps more Apple users should become share holders, that way we could guide Apple the way we want it to go, so they don't just take the most commercial route.

As far as OSX.2 is concerned, I think the point 2 is understating things. and Apple should have explained this, but OSX as far as i'm aware, is intended for this decade, I'm guessing .3 will arrive in 2003, .4 in 2004 and .9 in 2009. OSX seems to be more of a brand name, not just a number, similar to IBM's OS2.

For Apple to get rid of the X in OSX at this early stage, would be like calling the next version of Windows 95, 'Doors 96 !'

OSX.1 was version 1, OSX.2 is version 2, we don't want OS eleven for a while yet, as i've said before, 'e'lev'en' has too many syllables and isn't as punchy.

The only 2 real mistakes Apple made during MWNY2K+2, was not giving X.1 users an upgrade path to X.2 (especially since version 1 was never really finished), however future steps to .3 and .4 may justify full payment. (perhaps Apple will continue to refine OSX.1.5 to fix the speed problems etc...?

The other mistake was releasing iTools, if they knew they would have to charge for it in the future. This wasn't thinking different enough. Probably right that they need to charge now, but a mistake in releasing it to the masses as freebie in the first place.

I lost my faith in all MegaCorps a long long time ago. Personally if anyone has any 'faith' in a MegaCorp they probably need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Apple are a big nasty cash rich machine that behind all that gooey Aqua is still just a corporate animal just like any other.

I love the Mac, but I 'lost my faith' in Apple a long time ago.

I HAVE TO buy Jaguar. Having surfed the web in OS 9.2.2 yesterday on my new powermac, I could almost cry when I got back to OS X.1.5 and realized how slow it really is. On my pismo, the difference didn't seem all that big, but on my G4/800 os9 just flies like lightning. I just hope Jaguar gets us a speed boost like that. If not, then I'm going to be really disappointed.
And yes, I do need iTools as well. I know there are other email services out there that are free but I feel itools is part of the mac experience. You can call me a weirdo, but that's the way I feel about it. If I can't have it all, I don't want anything. I've got used to using iTools (esp. email and website storage) so I don't think I'll let them delete my account. I just keep on ranting but I'll end up paying in the end. Because I have no choice. Sure I could sell my mac and pismo and probably be able to replace them with a top of the line pc desktop and notebook at almost no extra cost, but then I'd be stuck with Windows. Imagine using Quicktime on a Windows machine. I'd hate that too. It would remind me how great os X was and realize how low I had sunk.
Anyway, forgive the odd frustration on my behalf, but someone once told me that the best way to get rid of problems is to talk about them...

simonjones ,

Agreed. I think this Church of the Holy Apple nonsense goes too far at times. Treating Apple like a religion and Jobs like a Messiah is absurd. Apple are a company and one clearly willing to bleed us dry for cash like any other. Their board are not humble hippies but ultra rich businessmen living in huge mansions with use of private jets.

Their business is to make a profit for themselves not to enrich our experience on this mortal coil. If you like their products you pay for them, but worship them? No thanks!

Rincewind,

Apple's policy is much worse than MS as they only release the new apps for the latest OS. I bet you the next release of iPhoto only works under 10.2!

The thing is Apple's strategy relies on making sure it get as much of the limited available revenue from a very loyal customer base, any Windows converts are a bonus. It makes me smile when I hear Jobs supporting the case against MS when all they make it an OS and a few applications when Apple make the computers the OS and now .mac.

I think people miss the point when they talk about which OS is better it really comes down to the fact you have to pay for everything for a Mac whereas there's loads of free (and pirated) titles for Windows. Regarding the instability of Windows its down to the sheer volume of different hardware it has to support if you leave it alone it works. I've got a Dell laptop (Win NT-4) and can honestly say it's never crashed in 2 years.

My iMac is getting old and I seriously thinking about a Windows PC the only thing putting me off is the prospect of owning a G4 powerbook - Its the sexy hardware that keeps you hooked!!!

cjbyron,

There are a lot of free apps available for the Mac as well, have a look at versiontracker. If piracy affects your decision then its VERY easy to get hold of pirated Mac software on Carracho. The only apps that are likely to need the latest OS are those that require new frameworks, because Apple have been adding them like mad. iCal and iSync will need 10.2, but thats because they need features that just aren't in 10.1.

As for the whole MS comparison, you have to remember that MS have a vast market dominance, and are in a very good position to abuse that dominance. Apple's creation of the whole widget does not give them any chance to abuse a dominant position that they just don't have. Thats why MS have been facing antitrust actions in the US and anticompetitive actions in the EU.

JP.