Macworld Forums

What's your take on the Mail's iPod factory report?

JonnyEvans,

Chinese workers in get paid $^ck all shocker.

I mean come on, slow day at the Mail was it, no immigration stories to be had.

Why is everyone and their dog rushing to get their goods manufactured in China, Vietnam, Taiwan or Eastern Europe.

Its a non story

It's a non-story?

You aren't a PR person, are you? They are the only people who say that to me.

JonnyEvans,
I think what he's trying to say is that this is not restricted to Apple. The reason everything from t-shirts to tvs are currently being made in China is because of the low wages resulting in cheap products and large profits. Whilst this is grossly unfair to the workforce and detrimental to our own manufacturing, singling Apple out in this way is also a misrepresentation. A story it definitely is but not one purely about ipods, more to do with the continual movement of industry to areas that exploit the workforce the most.

alanaha,
the mail is very fair in this - it categorically states that Apple isn't the only company doing this. It's simply an example. Apple isn't singled out, nor have I singled them out.

At the end of the day, it's consumers like us who are responsible, as we want lower prices. To pretend we aren't complicit in this is to ignore our own place in that, isn't it? So surely it's worth reminding us what this means.

JonnyEvans,
I dont have a problem with being reminded of this type of exploitation, quite the contrary as I pointed out the effect that it has on us all with regard to employment at home as well. What I'm concerned about is that the article, which I'm only learning about from yourselves, uses anyone as an example. The title - Ipod City refers to only one product. When this story is reprinted, as you have done, people will single out Apple - again as you have done - and that is all that they will remember. I can see it now in the PC press "If you buy an Ipod you are responsible for this" and whilst everyone frowns at the Apple ipod display, they pick up a new telly and DVD player and pat themselves on the back.
If you single anyone out then very few will see the deeper connections. The one line you used to include others in this exploitation is at the bottom and assumes that everyone will finish the article. Why didn't you start the piece with it, because it makes better press to start with an actual item that an individual can latch on to, thereby justifying my point.
PS I don't own an ipod

JonnyEvans,

I suppose Steve sleeps easy at night knowing he is only paid a dollar for the year!?

I can't see how Apple can justify the iPods price when they are getting it made for such a pittance... come on Apple start really "thinking different", it's not like you are losing money anymore!

JonnyEvans,

I haven't seen the article but there are many reasons why Apple should move manufacturing for Europe, to Europe.

Manufacturers go to China because it is cheap to manufacture there, which reduces the cost of products, which increases turnover because people do not keep the products for so long (because they are cheap).

The Mail may have their own reasons for having a go at Apple.

But i support any move to localise manufacturing and production in all industries (including Apple) for environmental reasons.
Products for the Chinese market should be manufactured in China, products for the UK should be made in the UK. Also ideally prices should be higher to encourage people to keep products longer and to repair them. I would support any moves to bring in regulation that would impose these restrictions on all manufacturers.

The alternative is not going to be pretty, far less pretty than the regulations that i suggested here!

I have to agree with Alanaha. It would almost make more sense to find a product which is NOT made in a 3rd world sweatshop. In fact, it was easily 5 years ago that I tried to buy some sneakers that weren't from a sweatshop. I wanted to do the right thing. After talking to a seemingly politically aware young sales woman, it appeared it was not possible. She laughed at me. Apparently all the brands of all the shoes in the store were made in sweatshops.

Consumers can't spend their way to a solution. What is required is a radical restructuring of consumer capitalism and corporate power. As it stands, corporate law demands that companies do whatever it takes to maximize profits in the short term. If the cost in the long term is millions of lives lost, and creating a planet which can no longer sustain human life, then so be it. That's the law.

JonnyEvans,

This thread from lastmonth is also pertinent.

(Saves me typing it all out again )

http://www.macworld.co.uk/forums/msgs.cfm?msg=70614

mobiustrip,

If you are still after some sustainable foot wear:

http://www.antiapathy.org/wornagain/home.html

Things went bad in this country on the foot wear front when Clarks moved production to China. They design brilliant foot wear, but it's a great shame that it's not made here.

JonnyEvans,

At the end of the day, it's consumers like us who are responsible, as we want lower prices. To pretend we aren't complicit in this is to ignore our own place in that, isn't it? So surely it's worth reminding us what this means.

A few years back, I was talking to someone in the marketing dept. of one of the UKs major cut-price discount - oh whatever - retail chains. I asked her why they didn't indicate the country of origin in their catalogues (since I prefer not to buy from certain countries). Because no one had ever asked for it was the reply. It appears that, while the chattering-classes might pay higher prices to follow their consciences, the majority of consumers just want lower prices & don't care about sweatshops, etc. etc. etc. When you consider that well over a third of UK voters weren't even concerned enough about UK politics etc. to vote in last year's General Election, is it any surprise that they don't care about abroad.

Trans-Meta,

Church's still are made in Northampton I believe. Not cheap though.

JonnyEvans,

JonnyEvans,

Hi Jonny

I have not read the complete article, as such my comments will be limited to the content i have read.

I feel the the Mail were wrong to single out apple by using "ipod city" as the title, yes they do mention that other companies use chinese manufacturers. However that only becomes apparent if you were to read the full article.

With regard to the amounts earned. These comments need to be viewed in the context of 'the going rate" in that economy, otherwise the statement is meaningless. I dont nkow what "the going rate" in china and as such it would be foolish to coment on what i think of the wages.

Similarly, i dont know whether domratory accomodation is part of the working enviornment in China, therefore it would be difficult to comment.

However, our desire in the west for constantly lower prices clearly impacts on what people get paid for making a product, and as such we are in no position to be judge/and/or jury on the morals of a company, apple included.

i dont think that the manufactering industry is any different from other industries which gravitate to cheap labour markets, and is a natural part of the capitalsit cycle,does not mean i agreed with it, but thats the way it works.

therefore i think this is a piece of sensastionalist journalism which uses the ipod popularity to make a catchy headline and make a story.

cheers

h

ps realy enjoyed the wedding jonny

If a western reader is told that workers only get $27, then that sounds exploitative, but if you have ever been to China and seen for yourself how far $27 will stretch, it doesn't sound such a bad wage.

When I was in Shanghai, on rainy days, there were people who stood in the doorways to offices and public building to hand ( other Chinese ) people a plastic sleeve to slip over their umbrellas, to prevent them dripping onto marble or stone floors. When I asked about it, I was told that they only get employed when it rains and although the pay is low, even by Chinese standards, it's still sought-after work and they can get any number of people to do such work.

China is a country with a huge workforce who are prepared to work for low wages as the cost of living is also very low. However, it's a situation that won't continue indefinitely. People in the cities are aspiring for the sort of lifestyle they they have learnt that westerners enjoy and people in the country want the sort of lifestyle that the city dwellers are currently enjoying.

The problem that I see is that if all they can offer is cheap labour, there will come a time where their wages will be higher and somebody else will be needed to make cheap stuff, just as in the past, Japan was the place for cheap goods, then Taiwan and now China.

India is looking to offer cheap service labour to western companies, so they would appear to be tackling the issue in a different way, offer skills ( primarily English language skills ) to foreign companies, rather than merely labour.

I've no idea whether all this global trading is a good thing or a bad thing. The way that Chinese people lived 25 years ago was very different to now. Some would prefer to wind the clock back, but most seem to welcome the changes and look forward to the future.

hughdonaghy@mac.,

I'm not sure people do want cheap products.
Manufacturers, ecconomists, some politicians and some law makers continually feed us with desires for cheap products.
Those same people will happily make sure that the primary information available to us is the price in big bold letters.

They don't put in big bold letters the following:

How much the workers were paid
How much water was used to make it
How much energy was used to make it and to get it to your door step

The list would obviously be big and would undoubtably put people off some products. Well, thats OK, because you either change or you let your competitor win who is doing all the correct things.

Only a radical solution will make companies like Apple and the vast majoriy of other electronics internationals change. The point is, they would gain in the long term, certainly respect and a much better future.