Macworld Forums

Trans-Meta,

We cant just remember the old systems we can still use them. Some people have created a emulator called vMac which emulates the old Mac Plus on Mac os 7.6 and above.

Search for it on the net and you'll find a download.

FuturePast23,

I have Macromedia Studio MX. If you have problems with Flash MX then address them to Macromedia because i am sure they are not due to OSX. As i have said in a post previously, there was nearly a riot on the macromedia Flash forum a number of months ago.
Fireworks has always been a bit sluggish and big, its based on an old Macromedia application called xRes.

The only solid macromedia app i ever used is Soundedit which works in OS9 (or earlier) and works fine in Classic. Macromedia stopped developing Soundedit, they have a habit of dumping reliable software!
Director 5 to 8.5 were OK but they still had annoying bugs, i haven't tried the latest OSX version of Director.

I use OS 10.1 and haven't found any bugs as such.

I have used Photoshop 6 at college in Classic and it works OK, the only glitch i found was in moving a layer around.

CraigGrannell,
don't get me wrong I LIKE X

BUT
some things just dont work, and they need to
Apple cannot (well they will anyway) deliver new macs that will not work
When it works it'll be great but it doesnt
MacOS9 I can troubleshoot myself, I can at least fix it, not so X
All I'm saying is it doesn't work
I can't use my scanner in PSHP in X or use the printer except if I boot into 9
Thats****

Trans-Meta,

Almost every USB peripheral I have used has posed problems on OS X. Call it a bug or whatever but the USB implementation on OS X has been very amateur. There are just too many USB products that have caused serious problems with the OS for it to be simply put down to bad drivers.

FuturePast23,
Yep, lets go back to using 20MB hard disks and only being able to open one application at a time. Should we not have not built cars because its more complicated than just walking.

I know where you are coming from, but you don't like X, not because its more complex but because its not what your used to and therefore of course its going to be more confusing than an OS you have used day in and day out for many years.

Al Bundy,
There are also plenty of USB devices that have no problem at all.

Chiron,

What scanner is it?

I assume you have asked for advise about your scanner on these forums?

Al Bundy,

Unfortunately most of the problems do seem to be with drivers.
I have only had one problem that at first appeared to be an OS problem. It later turned out to be a driver causing OSX to crash.

Trans-Meta,

Indeed but the way OS X was sold to everyone was that it was not going to be like that nasty OS 9 where extension conflicts caused all sorts of system problems. The idea was that drivers wouldn't be able to inflict the kind of problem that meant you had to switch off. This obviously wasn't the case.

J.P.,
>>It would be interesting if Adobe dropped the use of their own rendering engine for PS8 and used Quartz instead, But then of course they would lose a lot of parity between the MacOS and Windows.<<

Sounds familiar

OSX is a much better OS, a more stable system, no doubt. I love aspects of it a lot, but I have to agree something about it feels false and over graphical.

It's hard to clarify what I mean, because i'm talking here to lots of people who, like myself, have absorbed themselves into the finer points of this OS, but some of the simplicity, and speed of classic is missing. I can't explain it. It's like trying to explain to a scientist that you get a richer sound with vinyl compared to CDs. Logically you don't but you do.

I think things started to go wrong at OS8. The 3d folders should have indicated where Apple's focus was heading.

It is perceivably slower than OS9, but then...faster in some ways and definitely much more reliable (by probably 10 times), that's a trade off i'm prepared to accept. The GUI is still far too GAY for my liking (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I don't like pin stripes and those awful big scroll bars, that looks like someone badly cloned in photoshop.

Having used Windows quite a bit, there are things I like about that now (other than the crashes) The start menu is convenient and the same on every machine, the problem with customising your Mac system with pop up folders is you don't know your way around any other Mac.

I also like the window resizing on Windows, where you can re-size from the edges. something OSX is crying out for because you can no longer move windows around the screen by their edges, The top will no longer move beyond the menu bar, and the resize corner is 9 times out of 10 behind the Dock.

I've even had Mac Windows that the resize corner is actually off the screen, and if it weren't for the green button, I would have been snookered.

It's not that i'll get used to it, I am already. I love how reliable my Mac has become and the way i've only ever had to press the reset button twice since i've had my iMac. It's a lovely machine but......

Something doesn't feel right and I don't know what it is. I think it could be soul. OSX just doesn't have soul.

I think I just feel that Apple have put flash before substance. I'd gladly give up 30% of the extras for better versions of what is already there. I'm not going to justify what I say, because I don't think I can. I know OSX is the future, and you can't argue that a CD doesn't give perfect sound, but a much better OS7.5 with all the good stuff that OSX has to offer, is really what I wanted.

Dragonfly,

"Sounds familiar"

From where?

"It's like trying to explain to a scientist that you get a richer sound with vinyl compared to CDs. Logically you don't but you do."

Actually logically you do get a better sound from vinyl.

"The top will no longer move beyond the menu bar"

Well, yes, because you wouldn't be able to move it otherwise.

"and the resize corner is 9 times out of 10 behind the Dock."

Thats only the case if the program has been badly written, there is absolutely no reason why the screen shouldn't respect the Dock. Camino does, Safari does, the iApps do, Microsoft Office does, Acquisition does, Toast does and many many more.

The fact is that you just couldn't put into 7.5 what was needed to make it a modern OS. That was what the whole Pink/Copland panic was about, Apple realised that the MacOS was getting left behind. Apple had to more or less start from scratch with OSX, the new UI was an attempt to make a modern UI, and some bits worked, some didn't. What you have to remember is that its still only at version 2. It is maturing like mad and things will change and evolve.

JP.

Al Bundy,

You are obviously using the wrong USB devices. No one can be THAT unlucky.

I use and have used:

Epson 740 printer
HP all-in-one
Epson scanner
Palm Pilot x2
Digital camera x 2
Mice

All through a Belkin hub or not as the case may be.

All on OSX v1 - v2 in all flavours.

Only ever had a problem early on when unplugging a device from a sleeping Mac. Not recently though.

Maybe I'm just born lucky, but if the rest of my life is anything to go by

Dragonfly,

" It's like trying to explain to a scientist that you get a richer sound with vinyl compared to CDs. Logically you don't but you do"

to expand on JP's point

vinyl produces an analogue reproduction of an analogue recording of analogue sounds (and don't forget you hear in analogue not digital ).

Cd's use digital recordings were sound is sampled many times a second and gaps are interpolated (not always accurately).

Vinyl will always produce a technically better sound as it is a lossless recording technology. CD's are not.

J.P.,
From where?

I can't argue with what you're saying about OSX because you're right. (But you don't have to pick me up on every word. )

>>"The top will no longer move beyond the menu bar"
Well, yes, because you wouldn't be able to move it otherwise.<<

Yes exactly my point... You can no longer move a window via the sides as you could with OS9 to access the resize corner. As for badly written software, It should be built into the standard Window Framework, you shouldn't need to write for this. Finder itself has given me windows many times with the re-size corner off the screen.

I've had to hit the green button to rectify things.

No you couldn't physically put the contents of OSX in OS7.5, but OSX could have been less of a shift from the look and feel of OS7.5. You could still have had Quartz, column view windows, and the Dock. but structured things differently, things like the Apple Menu could have stayed the same.

Yes it's modern and It's a brave move, and probably right for what Apple want to do. As I said I can't flaw the fundamental parts of your arguement. OSX is a better OS.

Dragonfly,

"You can no longer move a window via the sides as you could with OS9 to access the resize corner."

But thats just a different UI design and there are reasons for it in that it was an attempt to localise the OS based stuff (ie the title bar and widgets) at the top of the screen in one bar, and leave the rest to the app. I think this might change, and that may be something that comes with a new UI in 10.3.

"It should be built into the standard Window Framework"

You can't take all drawing responsibility away from an app, the app has to tell the OS what to draw and where, thats just how it works. Forcing the screen size to exclude the Dock would cause problems and its just not necessary when apps themselves can just assess the Dock's position and size.

"No you couldn't physically put the contents of OSX in OS7.5, but OSX could have been less of a shift from the look and feel of OS7.5. You could still have had Quartz, column view windows, and the Dock."

Thats more or less what the Rhapsody DPs were like (minus the Dock) and while it was alright, there wasn't enough differentiation, it still looked like the old crusty system they were desperate to replace.

"but structured things differently, things like the Apple Menu could have stayed the same."

Thats just a recipe for stagnation. Look at things like the Dock, it was bad in the PB, but then they added Dock menus, and separators and now the Dock is much much more useful and the Dock folders are, IMO, much much better than the Apple menu ever was.

JP.

Dragonfly,

The 'soul' statement was about right. I think the problem is I don't feel particularly attached to the OS. I was able to change a lot with the look and feel of OS 9 that made it feel, well, personal. It's rather ironic that the Start menu in Windows is good because it is standard. Actually it is a wee bit different in XP but it is actually an improvement. I don't really like hunting around for scattered applications and having shortcuts to every single one in a central menu is extremely useful.

I would like to customise OS X a bit but I really don't want to use haxies. In 9 there was several things that could be done to make the system personal without going overboard. I had a selection of stupid system sounds for example, oh and a start up sound

Anyway if a haxie writer can write something to change the appearance why can't Apple integrate theme changes into the system? The problem I have with haxies is that I really don't know what I should do if one were to balls ups my machine. I would have a little more confident if the functionality was there from the start and tried and tested.